Curse

wheel · Jul 13, 2005, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by TelMarine

It's kinda stupid when you see sub level 10s with maxed out stuff and elites. There is a reason for requirements, so really low levels dont have all this uber stuff so quickly. I thought this game wasn't about having the best items either? Well this matters big time in the lower level arenas, people with max armor and elites usually do a whole lot better. I remember in Diablo2 when unique items didn't have level requirements. A level 1 barbarian could wear a 200+ chest plate. That's pretty stupid. There is a reason for reqs, so it doesn't completely break the balance.

i would not have any problem not letting people with higher level armor go into the ascalon arena. i'm not fond of the low level pvp arena anyway, but i understand that a lot of people enjoy it and i understand that it does upset the balance.

alexmeier175 · Jul 13, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

but as a forge rusher, i'll state my arguments against.

Players who are still rushed still have to complete the storyline to ascend, capture certain skills, change their secondary profession, and complete the +15 attribute quests, so it's not like they get rushed to Droknar's Forge and skip over Kryta completely. Forcing the players to go the storyline first without allowing them the option for paying for a rush is something I would expect from other games. Guild Wars is supposed to have less grind, not more, and forcing players to go through a linear plotline for 2, 3, 4 times even when the player doesn't want to do PvE at ALL is pure grind. They will still have to learn how to play the class to finish missions/quests/whatever.

What is teh point of ascending?
Except getting to droknar's forge, the only two other reason I can see are the 15 attribute points quest and changing secondary profession....
I've met a lot of people who dont reallly kno where the first 15 attribute point quest is anyway even after ascending...and hanging secobdary, whiole fun, it's a lot of grind to get all teh skill points you need to make your other secondary competitive..unless you focus on only a few secondary skillz for a special PvP build
So ascending doesnt really give you much...you could still skip it and get infusedaand complete the game IMO...
I alwyas though that they should limit the droknar's armor and infusion to ascended characters only..that way it makes ascending worthwhile...I enjoy running to Droknar's for teh challenge...but if you want to avoid people skipping you gotta make it worth their while to ascend

funbun · Jul 13, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

I enjoy running to Droknar's for teh challenge...but if you want to avoid people skipping you gotta make it worth their while to ascend

So, you're saying if I want to start 3 new characters I should grind 600hrs worth of gamplay just to ascend those characters? I DON'T WANT TO PLAY THROUGH THE GAME 4 FREAKIN TIMES JUST FOR PvP!!!!

Ascension was never any big deal anyway. I was lvl 20 before ascension. I was also lvl 20 before they changed ascension from instant lvl 20 to 50,000xp. That pissed me off. In my opinion Ascension means nothing. Most people reach lvl 20 before the ascension quests anyway.

GW has done nothing but make this game a grind fest just like WoW. Weapons drop are nothing now. You have to grind 10x as much to get the uber stuff. And Faction? Just more grind. It takes 1000-1500 faction to unlock basic spells and runes. That's a lot of arena fights just for basic stuff. GRIND.

I say keep the Drakor's Forge run that the only non-grind left in the game.

wheel · Jul 13, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexmeier175

What is teh point of ascending?
Except getting to droknar's forge, the only two other reason I can see are the 15 attribute points quest and changing secondary profession....
I've met a lot of people who dont reallly kno where the first 15 attribute point quest is anyway even after ascending...and hanging secobdary, whiole fun, it's a lot of grind to get all teh skill points you need to make your other secondary competitive..unless you focus on only a few secondary skillz for a special PvP build
So ascending doesnt really give you much...you could still skip it and get infusedaand complete the game IMO...
I alwyas though that they should limit the droknar's armor and infusion to ascended characters only..that way it makes ascending worthwhile...I enjoy running to Droknar's for teh challenge...but if you want to avoid people skipping you gotta make it worth their while to ascend

the point of ascension? 54,000 XP, and 6.5 skill points. i get all my characters rushed and i still do all the missions and skill points, it's faster than grinding for 20,000 xp. if people are being rushed to unlock skills, they're still going to do quests for skills and missions for skill points, especially including ascension. In other words, it's still economically efficient for a rushed player to ascend, and in simpler words, it's better for unlocking if they ascend, so they will.

Winterclaw · Jul 13, 2005, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

So, you're saying if I want to start 3 new characters I should grind 600hrs worth of gamplay just to ascend those characters? I DON'T WANT TO PLAY THROUGH THE GAME 4 FREAKIN TIMES JUST FOR PvP!!!!

Ascension was never any big deal anyway. I was lvl 20 before ascension. I was also lvl 20 before they changed ascension from instant lvl 20 to 50,000xp. That pissed me off. In my opinion Ascension means nothing. Most people reach lvl 20 before the ascension quests anyway.

GW has done nothing but make this game a grind fest just like WoW. Weapons drop are nothing now. You have to grind 10x as much to get the uber stuff. And Faction? Just more grind. It takes 1000-1500 faction to unlock basic spells and runes. That's a lot of arena fights just for basic stuff. GRIND.

I say keep the Drakor's Forge run that the only non-grind left in the game.

I largely agree with funbun here. My PC hit level 20... somewhere between LA and Denragi's I think. Probably closer to LA. I also agree there is a ton of grind in the game. Most of the drops I get are junk items or weapons most people won't buy (like a max damage staff with only +11% enchantments or something crazy like that). The only runes I get sell at the trader for min price. I'm not the best at PvP (haven't done it since having my rear handed to me at the droknar's arena) but from what I saw about faction, it does seem like a lot of grind.

I'm on the fence about running but I will say this: try not to run totally new players please. For everyone's sake. IMO Anet should do something to reduce the need for running.

funbun · Jul 13, 2005, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

IMO Anet should do something to reduce the need for running.

They need to go back to the way the game was in the beginning.

If there was no Grind-Fest there would be no need to run.

Isis Snowflame · Jul 13, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

I was rushed last night by Carna Detonas and they are a top notch rusher. I would highly recomend them to anyone who wanted the service and her rates are quite reasonable. Happy hunting and best of luck Carna!!

Isis

DrSLUGFly · Jul 13, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

it doesn't matter what game you play. It will feel like a GRIND to play the entire story 4 times so that you can take your characters the places you want to. I don't plan on ending hte game with my 2nd 3rd and 4th characters, I"ll just play the missions and bonuses I enjoy (and areas/quests I enjoy)... I won't be rushing however because Lornar's Pass is one of the area's that I enjoy, but as soon as any of my characters hits lvl 20, the Pass will be my next destination.

wheel · Jul 13, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

They need to go back to the way the game was in the beginning.

If there was no Grind-Fest there would be no need to run.

exactly. 10 chars

RulerOfChaos · Jul 13, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Hello, I am the leader of Elite Forge Runners (Runz) I have made this guild for the customers that would like a FAST RELIABLE NON-SCAMMING forge runner. We are entirely legit and like Slash Dot said, we do not charge uprfront and are reasonably cheap. Once we get our site up we will be hosting forge running competitions and we will also be giving out free forge runz and discounts. I will post our site once i get it up... Interested in joining us? are you a forge runner, training to be, or just wanna join. Let me know!!

Borealis · Jul 13, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I had a run to droknars a little while ago by a person named Ichigo Rain, absolutely excellent run, didn't take more then 20 minutes and only charged 2.5k @ camp rancor.

Happy custormer here!

Carna Detonas · Jul 14, 2005, 07:22 AM // 07:22

First off, I wanted to thank Janos for her referral. =)

A couple thoughts from my point of view, and I'll admit I haven't read through the entire thread yet...

Ditchers suck, but there's nothing you can really do about them. I considered asking for payment at Snake Dance but decided against it. Exactly what *do* you do if someone refuses to pay? Refund everyone and leave game, which wastes everyone's time, or go on? Snake Dance or Rankor or Forge, a runner is going to have to deal with customers refusing to pay. Might as well make it Forge or Rankor. If either become the standard rather than the exception, it'll become a lot easier for the general public to spot scammers -- I've heard more than one horror story of a "runner" collecting at Snake only to leave game.

As for the majority of my customers all I can say is that they never fail to surprise me. Tips seem to be the norm, rather than the exception. Even today I made two "free" runs, something I do when running a guildie, and came out nearly as well as I would have had I expected payments. Ditchers suck but the rest of my customers more than make up for the dishonest minority.

On the ethics of running people to the forge versus making them play through the game, up until recently I don't think it made much of a difference. With the new PvP unlocking system however I expect to see a *lot* more rushed players in lower level arenas taking advantage of "end-game" gear and skills in order to gain more faction. I could be way off base here...

Finally, in a follow up post another member provided a referral to Graka Ekieron. I'll second this referral. Before I started making Forge runs myself, Graka was the first and *only* person I would turn to when anyone in my guild needed a rush. I'd go as far as to say that if it weren't for Graka I wouldn't be making Forge runs myself. I watched him more times than I could count and thanks to that had very little to figure out on my own when the time came to try running it for myself.

Carna Detonas
Run to Forge - 2k at Forge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janos Harr

Just wanted to share an awesome experience with you,

I'm on my 3rd character now, I've already had a lvl 20 monk and warrior. I wanted to start a mesmer for GvG and PvP. So, I decided to rush though as much as possible and try to get a forge run form beacon's at lvl 11. I'd gone through the normal way with both my other characters, so this thread really helped me choose a runner. I watched for all the signs you've posted on here, and asked the Tactics question as well.

I was pleased to get a rundown of all the runners attributes prompty from asking. Also, this particular runner didn't take cash up front, and accepted payment (lower than all the rest I might add, only 2k) at Rankor. After talking to him about it, he said that about 20% of his customers ditch out on him, but he didn't really mind, he was a nice guy.

So, he gets all 5 of us there and low and behold one of them skips out on him. I told him I would pay him an extra plat on top for such a good run and being a nice guy overall. This was echoed by another member of the party, pretty much putting him back to what he would've made anyhow. I also told him I would post his name on here for all to see (with his permission) as an excellent runner.

If you are indeed looking for this service, I would HIGHLY reccomend:
Carna Detonas

dansamy · Jul 14, 2005, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Wow! Carna, you have to be the best-priced rusher I've seen. I'll reccommend you to my sister and her guildmates.

wheel · Jul 14, 2005, 08:41 AM // 08:41

there's so many rushers now it's ridiculous how low prices have been lately, but i'm glad that so many people have an opportunity to be rushed.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Cool, post Carna

I was rushed by Redblade Stoneforge. Kind service. He talks about the map. The hard areas. The skills he uses. He accepts 1k in Rankor if you are comfortable doing so and 1k in payment in the Forge.

Other wise it's 2k in the Forge. He's made over 150 runs. That's nice credibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

exactly. 10 chars

Back in the Day...

Wings of Illusion · Jul 14, 2005, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

there's so many rushers now it's ridiculous how low prices have been lately, but i'm glad that so many people have an opportunity to be rushed.

people who get rushed... simply just noobs. getting rushed makes the game not as exciting. once you get good armor, its no fun.

funbun · Jul 14, 2005, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wings of Illusion

people who get rushed... simply just noobs. getting rushed makes the game not as exciting. once you get good armor, its no fun.

What are you talking about? I've already beaten the game the regular way with my monk. I've started 3 new characters and I'm NOT going to play through the storyline 3 more times. That's boring. Rushing makes it more exiting as now I'm interested in PvP not PvE.

If it's your first time, play regularly. But why go through the game the same way after you've beaten it? I just become a grind. The story ain't that great. Going through it 3 additional times is a nightmare.

How can you say I'm a noob when I've beaten the game? Have you beaten the game yet?

goku19123 · Jul 14, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Yea, I went through the game 3 times, after that (picking up the remainder of the skills, as grinding out points is boring) I went for rushes to work backwards from the furthest skill vendors. Anyone who says rushing to Droknars is bad, is still on their first character - let the grind set in...

Dax · Jul 14, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

There's a key difference. I am not telling anyone how to play the game. I am making a small inferrence into the developers intent simply by process of induction. The developers set out to create a game with little grind, which they have said in multiple press releases, referenceable from guildwars.com. Rushes have a direct correlation to reducing that grind, and are in no way an exploit of the game, which would be much more likely to be the ultimate intent in creating a grindless game. I do not have to prove the developer's intent to say that people doing Droknar's Forge rushes should be allowed to happen. The burden of proof is on the accusor(s), people who say that play should be RESTRICTED because it goes in the face of the developer's intent. There's a key difference, essentially it boils down metaphorically to innocent until proven guilty.

Too bad we are not in a court of law.

You've rationalised rushing to be ok fine, that still doesn't make it not any less of an exploit to pass low level players through by rezzing them at the zones.

I'm not telling you how to play, and my small inferrance, as you call it, is that maybe they intended to let high level players be able to run through these area, they might not have figured on low level player breezing through just by rezzing at the zones. Just because they haven't fixed it doesn't make it not any less of an exploit.

so do what you want, that doesn't mean I don't have the right to think it's wrong. I agree that they didn't want to make it a grind and they haven't, this game is not a grind even if you don't rush (it's not that difficult).... well unless you need to raise 5-10k really fast to pay someone to rush you.

RulerOfChaos · Jul 14, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Hrmm carna charges 2k O.o i always charge 1-2k when its real busy around and i THINK i said 3-4k earlier but i charge that when there are no runners. hint (catch me around in the morning i give lots and lots of free runs and 1k runs) also me and my guildies race to the forge ALOT so if you want a FAST guaranteed run in 15-20 minutes whisper me and ask when the next race is because we charge 1k usually and we have 2 seats available (around 4 of us race at a time). peace homies whisper me ingame whenever.

~ Trust the guild